Brazil’s President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva told the BBC in an exclusive interview that he has “no relationship” with US President Donald Trump. Lula has often criticised Trump before, but this is the clearest statement yet that he thinks there is almost no communication between the two leaders.
In July, Trump imposed 50% tariffs on Brazilian goods, even though the US usually has a trade surplus with Brazil. Trump cited the trial of Brazil’s former president Jair Bolsonaro on coup charges as the telling reason behind the decision.
Lula called these tariffs “eminently political” and warned that American consumers would end up paying more for Brazilian products like coffee and meat.
At the time he said, “The American people will pay for the mistakes President Trump is incurring in his relationship with Brazil.” The two leaders have never spoken directly since.
When asked why he hadn’t tried to reach out, Lula told BBC, “I never tried that call because he never wanted to have a conversation.” Trump has said Lula could “call him anytime,” but Lula insisted that members of Trump’s administration “do not want to talk.”
Lula also said he learned about the tariffs from Brazilian newspapers and criticised Trump for announcing them on social media, saying it wasn’t a “civilised” way to communicate. He just published them on his portal – on social media.” When asked about his relationship with the US president, he was blunt: “There’s no relationship.”
Lula on his global connections
Despite his poor relations with Trump, Lula said he has maintained strong ties with former US presidents, UK prime ministers, the EU, China, Ukraine, Venezuela, and other countries. He defended his relationship with Russia’s Vladimir Putin, saying their connection started when both were presidents “in previous times.”
He said, “I don’t have a relationship with Trump because when Trump was elected the first time, I wasn’t president. His relationship is with Bolsonaro, not Brazil.”
Lula added that if he sees Trump at the UN General Assembly, he would greet him because he is a “civilised citizen,” but added, “Trump may be president of the United States, [but] he’s not emperor of the world.”
Lula spoke about Bolsonaro, who was recently convicted by Brazil’s Supreme Court for plotting a coup and sentenced to 27 years in prison. Lula said Bolsonaro and his co-conspirators “hurt the country, attempted a coup, and plotted my death.” He also criticised Trump for claiming Bolsonaro was being persecuted and saying Brazil lacked democracy.
On the 6 January 2021 Capitol riot in the US, Lula said that if a similar event had happened in Brazil, Trump would have been put on trial.
UN reform and global issues
Lula criticised the UN for giving veto power to its five permanent Security Council members, saying this prevents the UN from solving conflicts and gives too much power to countries that won World War Two, “excluding nations representing billions of people like Brazil, Germany, India, Japan, as well as African countries.”
Further, he defended Brazil’s alliances with Russia and China, and said Brazil buys oil from Russia only because it needs oil, not to finance Russia’s war in Ukraine. He also described the conflict in Gaza as a “genocide” rather than a war.
Lula addressed Brazil’s oil exploration near the Amazon River, which has been controversial. He said Brazil is following the law, and the government would take responsibility for any oil spills. “Brazil would be liable and responsible and take care of any problem”. He added, “I want to know of any country that is prepared to have an energy transition and capable of giving up fossil fuels.”
Lula, 79, in his concluding remarks said he has not decided whether he will run for re-election in 2026. He said the decision will depend on his health, his party, political timing, and whether he has a chance to win. Lula’s approval recently fell in the polls, but he gained support after Trump imposed tariffs.
(With inputs from BBC)
